What great questions...and I hope you don't mind, Ann, but I'm more in Richards camp here, which you know. I just don't comply to the 'norm'.
I have had this discussion and read many articles from Simon K Jones, and I know 1200 words seems to be the standard, if there s one, for serials, but I considered a few things:
• How do I write and how do I enjoy writing?
• Will limiting the length of the story for each episode put me in a box?
• Will limiting the length of the episode prevent me from telling the 'complete' story?
• If I prefer to write a specific way, won't this become a natural filter for who stays and who leaves as a reader?
• Isn't the #1 most important thing to consistently tell a story and offer it to other?
We all have to make those decisions, and when I started, my episodes averaged 7,000-10,000 words. Then I slimmed them down. Got to roughly 5,000 words. Now I try to stay between 3000 and 5000 words...and it's my near perfect count.
The other thing I do is make sure to publish the Seasons as soon as I have enough for a book. So when you look on the 'Start Reading Here' page, as you look down the list, I separate the Season with an add and links to the published book.
I believe that has helped.
We can all give you our views, Ann, but you have to do you. Personally, I have learned it's a mistake for me to limit myself. My goal is to make the very best stories, how I make them, for my community.
Ok, I don’t need to comment now. Jaime is on the money. My word count was initially shorter, but I’ve made it longer because otherwise it’ll take years for one “season” to come out. I’m at around 2,000 to 2,700 words per episode. Sometimes they’re shorter because I need to end it on some sort of hook. But you gotta do you. Your readers read you because it’s you. (If that makes sense.) I seriously need to start Time Witch. It’s in my to read pile.
I think Kummer has the right idea. In my case, I write almost exclusively in the same universe so I can put a collection of stories together and it will make sense just because of the universe. As my new universe spools up and starts producing stories, I'll probably be able to keep those stories in their own collections as well.
I hate to think how poorly my third book would have turned out compared to its current version with substack and the motivation that came with it to world build. It definitely made a difference to suddenly find a community.
That's great to hear. I feel the same way about Harvey Girl. It was my first serial, so a bit uneven, as I figured out what felt right to me, and I rushed the ending because I wanted to start the next story with a better foundation. But, I rewrote the whole "season" as a book. That's all due to Substack & a very supportive community.
This is a tough one. I aim for about 1500 words but will squint and keep the chapter if it hits close to 2000... but ... I will take a serious look to see if I've two chapters in one there ( ... I have before... it's a thing I do )
Now writing something shorter of 8 chapters or less? Why not collect several into a short story collection? I personally love those if they are all based in the same setting.
Now a 3000 word story? Hm... that might be too long for one post here. I personally would break that into smaller posts based on the flow and story. BUT! That's just my 2 cents.
And ... K-Cup is just nagging the tar out of me to say 'HI!' *shaking head*
I'm going to actually step up and say something. First, I'll say: You do you. The second thing is: I paywalled my serial(s). I did it because I was forced into a corner with three friends paying for subscriptions two days after I started my stack. I don't have a lot of Paid followers, but you know what, I don't mind. I write my stories for me first. If I don't like it, how can I expect anyone else to?
I know, it sounds selfish, so let me explain. I, too, like to write long fiction. I put out novellas and novels. Sunday is FREE, and I read it out as well, but Wednesday is paywalled. It's more difficult to break the novellas into pieces I can put up and read, because they weren't written to be serials. But my serials are. Even so, my sections of Novellas are anywhere from 1800 to 2400 words. They just work out like that sometimes.
The readers don't seem to mind. Sure, I lose a few here and there, but my numbers keep going up. Where I find true freedom is with my serial: THE SHIELD OF LOCKSLEY. That's the one behind the paywall. I have a new PAID subscriber, so that brings me up to 40. I write an introduction for those not willing to up-Grade, and leave them hanging. I used to do a recap of the previous chapter, but have since told them (the Freebies) that I'm not doing that anymore. If they want to read the story, they can pay the $30/year Canadian. That's like $20 US.
The chapters range from 2200 (which are "parts, or sections, of a larger chapter) to 4800 words. I've told my (Paid) readers that all I can promise them is a chapter in its entirety. I refuse to break them like I do my novellas. They don't all end with a dramatic cliffhanger, but there is tension of some kind. All I'm saying is that it works. Like I said, there's only 40 readers, but they're not complaining. I take that as a good sign. Someone did voice a complaint once, but said they didn't mind it as much because it was good. What? I'm going to complain about that?
The one takeaway I have when it comes to serial writing, is don't sweat the small stuff. If you need to tell a part of your story and it takes 3000 words, do it. I just looked at some of my chapters, thinking they were shorter than they were. I looked at three. One was 3800 words, the second was 4300 and the last one was 4800. I finished the story, and now I'm editing it. I'm looking at 253,500 words. it actually works out to 52 chapters.
I'm like Jamie. I don't conform to the norm. I write to entertain myself, first, and just hope others like what I have to offer.
I didn’t know you were listening; I love that you are, though. In fact, I have to get dressed and read my next one out today…I’m also trying to get my next project launched as well, (The Celebrity Diner) but have been having issues (and it’s not just with the “hostess.”) But I finally got her to sit down and watch about ten minutes of it, and she seemed okay with it — temperamental diva that she is. (You’d think she’d be happy because it’s all: Her, her, her.) I, for one, embrace the idea of videos because I’m technically challenged; she, on the other hand, couldn’t care less about any of it. What’s a guy to do?
I'll be a diplomat and say that what you decide to do is personal to you. I agree with Kummer that longer is dangerous, which many of my episodes are, and I think my subscribership (is there such a word?) has suffered because of it. I aim for 2K words, and about 30% of my episodes go longer than that. I've always been a long-form writer, and writing short scenes is, to me, quite difficult. (I guess I have too much to say. People complain about my sermons being too long as well!)
I'm also very counter-cultural, so I don't care if my episode count goes high (The Jester went to 43; The Beacon is on 22 and counting). I just hope my audience, small as it is, will stick with me.
I absolutely agree that one should honor those who like and comment and restack, especially the commenters. It's hard getting people to leave feedback (even my wife! and son! and sister!). I like to leave encouraging notes in return, capture the gist of the episode and use it to introduce a restack, or make a pun or LOL comment. I sincerely believe in making endorphins fly in others' brains!
If I could crank out audio versions of my episodes, I would, but my 60-hour/week real job doesn't allow me. Bummer. Maybe some day . . .
Thank you, Richard, for your thoughtful feedback! It's a treasure! 🫶 You are a wonderful commenter & your messages to my stories make me smile and help feed my writer soul! I know writing shorter is harder for most of us, but I'm willing to try if Substack works better that way. However, that's just me. I don't mean it for other writers, unless they choose. I'd love to hear other insights, as everyone experiments on this forum. It's a fun learning curve!
I really wish Substack had come along in, say, 2005, but, alas! it was not to be. I've been looking for something like this on the web for a very long time, and now, here it is, and I must take advantage of it. I don't have a strong desire to publish my writing as books--perhaps that desire will blossom at some point, though the clock is winding down--but what I can do on Substack fulfills the urge to get my stories "out there."
So, I'm glad that Substack allows us to publish what we want how we want to. We just have to ignore the many on the platform who say, "You MUST do it this way!" I always do a lot of eye-rolling when I read such stuff.
Rather than being shorter, serialised fiction needs to have natural episodes, not a random word count that affects good story telling.
Fiction or essays that are more than around 2000 or 2500 words tend to be too much. However, for some serial fiction, I really wish they were longer than a 15 minute read each week! There are some excellent serials on Substack.
And don't forget that Simon.K.Jones is three years into his current serial novel, which is starting to wrap up.
I see your point, Caz. I definitely feel fiction installments still need to follow solid outlining practices. Figuring out how they differ for a serialized story is the thing. I agree that length alone isn't the be all end all, it's just a guide.
There's certainly no rule on Substack for length, although I see it mentioned on Substack quite frequently, as if someone worked out a magic formula. I read a lot of fiction on the platform, and every writer varies their publication word count.
I love short stories a thousand words or less. Three thousand words or multiple chapters, eight or more presented weekly and I get lost. But hook me with the character and I’ll buy a longer, detailed book.
What great questions...and I hope you don't mind, Ann, but I'm more in Richards camp here, which you know. I just don't comply to the 'norm'.
I have had this discussion and read many articles from Simon K Jones, and I know 1200 words seems to be the standard, if there s one, for serials, but I considered a few things:
• How do I write and how do I enjoy writing?
• Will limiting the length of the story for each episode put me in a box?
• Will limiting the length of the episode prevent me from telling the 'complete' story?
• If I prefer to write a specific way, won't this become a natural filter for who stays and who leaves as a reader?
• Isn't the #1 most important thing to consistently tell a story and offer it to other?
We all have to make those decisions, and when I started, my episodes averaged 7,000-10,000 words. Then I slimmed them down. Got to roughly 5,000 words. Now I try to stay between 3000 and 5000 words...and it's my near perfect count.
The other thing I do is make sure to publish the Seasons as soon as I have enough for a book. So when you look on the 'Start Reading Here' page, as you look down the list, I separate the Season with an add and links to the published book.
I believe that has helped.
We can all give you our views, Ann, but you have to do you. Personally, I have learned it's a mistake for me to limit myself. My goal is to make the very best stories, how I make them, for my community.
That's why they joined in the first place.
Didn't they?
Fantastic feedback, Jaime!!! Thanks for taking the time to share that. I'm listening and it's good advice! ❤️
Ok, I don’t need to comment now. Jaime is on the money. My word count was initially shorter, but I’ve made it longer because otherwise it’ll take years for one “season” to come out. I’m at around 2,000 to 2,700 words per episode. Sometimes they’re shorter because I need to end it on some sort of hook. But you gotta do you. Your readers read you because it’s you. (If that makes sense.) I seriously need to start Time Witch. It’s in my to read pile.
Totally agree and thanks for having me in your To Read pile. 😊
eBook.
...must...have...ebook...
....pleeeeeease....
https://www.amazon.com/Harvey-Girl-Fools-Treasure-Book-ebook/dp/B0DS1HMYBJ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=2YRDO1D8EDCUB&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.iOiQVBhReO6prOlH9Ge_CdDcmH2f8wojl9Bi3E8M7QwF_oMFWruAu5zCJoQf-xv2FerYKi8KdzchuWm6mlOdSLAtR8lo39x1VgBaYN9_EAftbXcLi7I5mBlm_SIwevml.6abXr1b8cHeHqcEkgSsqcCsNbEuY_JZsb-xhcz4xeYc&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+harvey+girl+fool%27s+treasure&qid=1738431752&sprefix=harvey+girl+f%2Caps%2C205&sr=8-2
But I use NOOK.....*sniff* not Kindles.....
What???
[cringes as he looks at current word count os 5086 for this weeks chapter...]
It's a good thing!
I think Kummer has the right idea. In my case, I write almost exclusively in the same universe so I can put a collection of stories together and it will make sense just because of the universe. As my new universe spools up and starts producing stories, I'll probably be able to keep those stories in their own collections as well.
Brilliant 👏 👏 👏
I don't know about anyone else, but that, right there, is why I was deeply excited about substack.
...you can fund a whole universe someone has made, and stay there.
We just do it different ways. 👍🏼
I hate to think how poorly my third book would have turned out compared to its current version with substack and the motivation that came with it to world build. It definitely made a difference to suddenly find a community.
That's great to hear. I feel the same way about Harvey Girl. It was my first serial, so a bit uneven, as I figured out what felt right to me, and I rushed the ending because I wanted to start the next story with a better foundation. But, I rewrote the whole "season" as a book. That's all due to Substack & a very supportive community.
Completely get it, DW.
For me, and I've been doing this for decades, Substack has been magical. Transformed my work.
...and my community?
I've never been so motivated in my creative career.
This is a tough one. I aim for about 1500 words but will squint and keep the chapter if it hits close to 2000... but ... I will take a serious look to see if I've two chapters in one there ( ... I have before... it's a thing I do )
Now writing something shorter of 8 chapters or less? Why not collect several into a short story collection? I personally love those if they are all based in the same setting.
Now a 3000 word story? Hm... that might be too long for one post here. I personally would break that into smaller posts based on the flow and story. BUT! That's just my 2 cents.
And ... K-Cup is just nagging the tar out of me to say 'HI!' *shaking head*
I'm going to actually step up and say something. First, I'll say: You do you. The second thing is: I paywalled my serial(s). I did it because I was forced into a corner with three friends paying for subscriptions two days after I started my stack. I don't have a lot of Paid followers, but you know what, I don't mind. I write my stories for me first. If I don't like it, how can I expect anyone else to?
I know, it sounds selfish, so let me explain. I, too, like to write long fiction. I put out novellas and novels. Sunday is FREE, and I read it out as well, but Wednesday is paywalled. It's more difficult to break the novellas into pieces I can put up and read, because they weren't written to be serials. But my serials are. Even so, my sections of Novellas are anywhere from 1800 to 2400 words. They just work out like that sometimes.
The readers don't seem to mind. Sure, I lose a few here and there, but my numbers keep going up. Where I find true freedom is with my serial: THE SHIELD OF LOCKSLEY. That's the one behind the paywall. I have a new PAID subscriber, so that brings me up to 40. I write an introduction for those not willing to up-Grade, and leave them hanging. I used to do a recap of the previous chapter, but have since told them (the Freebies) that I'm not doing that anymore. If they want to read the story, they can pay the $30/year Canadian. That's like $20 US.
The chapters range from 2200 (which are "parts, or sections, of a larger chapter) to 4800 words. I've told my (Paid) readers that all I can promise them is a chapter in its entirety. I refuse to break them like I do my novellas. They don't all end with a dramatic cliffhanger, but there is tension of some kind. All I'm saying is that it works. Like I said, there's only 40 readers, but they're not complaining. I take that as a good sign. Someone did voice a complaint once, but said they didn't mind it as much because it was good. What? I'm going to complain about that?
The one takeaway I have when it comes to serial writing, is don't sweat the small stuff. If you need to tell a part of your story and it takes 3000 words, do it. I just looked at some of my chapters, thinking they were shorter than they were. I looked at three. One was 3800 words, the second was 4300 and the last one was 4800. I finished the story, and now I'm editing it. I'm looking at 253,500 words. it actually works out to 52 chapters.
I'm like Jamie. I don't conform to the norm. I write to entertain myself, first, and just hope others like what I have to offer.
Brilliant! Thanks for sharing all of that, Ben! I love the readings you do and your advice is very freeing. ❤️
I didn’t know you were listening; I love that you are, though. In fact, I have to get dressed and read my next one out today…I’m also trying to get my next project launched as well, (The Celebrity Diner) but have been having issues (and it’s not just with the “hostess.”) But I finally got her to sit down and watch about ten minutes of it, and she seemed okay with it — temperamental diva that she is. (You’d think she’d be happy because it’s all: Her, her, her.) I, for one, embrace the idea of videos because I’m technically challenged; she, on the other hand, couldn’t care less about any of it. What’s a guy to do?
🤣 I support ranting as a way to feel better. Sending you a virtual hug, as well. 😉
I'll be a diplomat and say that what you decide to do is personal to you. I agree with Kummer that longer is dangerous, which many of my episodes are, and I think my subscribership (is there such a word?) has suffered because of it. I aim for 2K words, and about 30% of my episodes go longer than that. I've always been a long-form writer, and writing short scenes is, to me, quite difficult. (I guess I have too much to say. People complain about my sermons being too long as well!)
I'm also very counter-cultural, so I don't care if my episode count goes high (The Jester went to 43; The Beacon is on 22 and counting). I just hope my audience, small as it is, will stick with me.
I absolutely agree that one should honor those who like and comment and restack, especially the commenters. It's hard getting people to leave feedback (even my wife! and son! and sister!). I like to leave encouraging notes in return, capture the gist of the episode and use it to introduce a restack, or make a pun or LOL comment. I sincerely believe in making endorphins fly in others' brains!
If I could crank out audio versions of my episodes, I would, but my 60-hour/week real job doesn't allow me. Bummer. Maybe some day . . .
Thanks for all you do, Ann!
Thank you, Richard, for your thoughtful feedback! It's a treasure! 🫶 You are a wonderful commenter & your messages to my stories make me smile and help feed my writer soul! I know writing shorter is harder for most of us, but I'm willing to try if Substack works better that way. However, that's just me. I don't mean it for other writers, unless they choose. I'd love to hear other insights, as everyone experiments on this forum. It's a fun learning curve!
I really wish Substack had come along in, say, 2005, but, alas! it was not to be. I've been looking for something like this on the web for a very long time, and now, here it is, and I must take advantage of it. I don't have a strong desire to publish my writing as books--perhaps that desire will blossom at some point, though the clock is winding down--but what I can do on Substack fulfills the urge to get my stories "out there."
So, I'm glad that Substack allows us to publish what we want how we want to. We just have to ignore the many on the platform who say, "You MUST do it this way!" I always do a lot of eye-rolling when I read such stuff.
Here's to publishing as we wish! 🥂
I'm with you on that. We must do it our way!
Perfectly put, Richard. Agreed.
Rather than being shorter, serialised fiction needs to have natural episodes, not a random word count that affects good story telling.
Fiction or essays that are more than around 2000 or 2500 words tend to be too much. However, for some serial fiction, I really wish they were longer than a 15 minute read each week! There are some excellent serials on Substack.
And don't forget that Simon.K.Jones is three years into his current serial novel, which is starting to wrap up.
I see your point, Caz. I definitely feel fiction installments still need to follow solid outlining practices. Figuring out how they differ for a serialized story is the thing. I agree that length alone isn't the be all end all, it's just a guide.
There's certainly no rule on Substack for length, although I see it mentioned on Substack quite frequently, as if someone worked out a magic formula. I read a lot of fiction on the platform, and every writer varies their publication word count.
This is helpful to me as I start my serialisation journey. I know nothing so your insights are valuable to me. I will be watching.
Glad it helps! We're all figuring it out, so enjoy the process.😊
I'm about to go through this myself. Thanks for the advice.
All the best on your journey. I just put out a Part 2 based on all the great comments I rec'd, plus an unavoidable truth. :)
I appreciate your words. Good luck to you as well!
I love short stories a thousand words or less. Three thousand words or multiple chapters, eight or more presented weekly and I get lost. But hook me with the character and I’ll buy a longer, detailed book.
Thanks for the feedback, Milly (Phyllis!) I always love your insight!